Which Four Numbers Do Executives Actually Want From Your Event?

[00:00:06] Welcome back to Event About It, the Dynamic Dialogue After Show. I'm your host, Megan Martin. And if you're new here, this is where the conversation is going to get real. And my guest today is Sarah Ann Straw. She's spent nearly two decades in corporate events. She's led global events team at some of the fastest growing tech companies in the world. She's a CMP and an MBA and the creator of the SAS Framework and her new book, The Experience Executive, is out now.

[00:00:34] I literally mean this when I tell everyone to go read it. You need this on your bookshelf. She also runs Solo Travel Woman, which is an entire second life, most of the events industry. I don't even know if they know you do a lot of that, but we're going to get into it as well. Okay, so I'm going to get straight into the book because I think I've told you I appreciate you sending me the advance copy. Devoured it in one sitting. Absolutely love what you wrote.

[00:01:01] It's about time someone finally put this on paper. The analogies I could make between the podcast and why we started Event About It and your book. I mean, they could not be more similar. It's about time that more event people speak corporate and keep speaking executive.

[00:01:19] And it's ironic to me that just two weeks ago, I was at a conference giving a talk specifically around event data. And I just kept saying like, you have data, you're just asking the wrong questions.

[00:01:34] And then here I am, I get your book at the very first chapter says we're asking the wrong questions. So tell us the moment that kind of spurred all of this thinking for you. You know, there's a story you tell in the book about you showed up for a meeting and then someone started asking questions and you weren't necessarily prepared for them.

[00:01:58] Oh, yeah. And let me tell you my very Irish skin that turned red to the tip of my hair. Um, because I did not have the answers they were looking for.

[00:02:09] Um, so yeah, I went into a meeting, you know, what I thought was a planning meeting where our executives, my CMO and our CRO wanted to just kind of hear, Hey, what's going on with the event? How are we doing with registrations? And I'm a little old school. I have my binder that I walk with me everywhere. So I walk in with my binder, my laptop. I have a highlighter ready to highlight things, you know, really excited.

[00:02:34] And I sit down to tell them, Hey, so we're at X amount of registrations, what the exact number was at the time, I do not remember. But we are at this amount of registrations here where we are with, you know, we're starting to do our food and beverage, we have this many virtual like I was going to go into those logistical metrics, I call for the event, because that's to me what always had mattered, right? How many viewers on a webinar? And how long did they stay? You know, that's it.

[00:03:04] Well, the first question out of my CRO's mouth was, can you remind me again, why we're investing in this? And my answer was, well, because I was told to. Yeah, that's all. I mean, it's not a wrong answer. It's not a wrong answer. But this is the moment where I realized, well, crap, we really do always were these order takers.

[00:03:31] And this is how why we've always felt this way. Because my answer literally proved. I'm doing it because I was told to this is something you guys have done for years. And I knew and this is what I'm doing.

[00:03:45] And he was like, yeah, but why? So then they sit down and I have him pulling up these these spreadsheets on like in Salesforce dashboards. We're looking at our customer churn rate. We're looking at our expansion rates. And we're like, oh, well, what percentage of customers are coming to the event? Hold on. Let me go in and see. And so I'm starting right there live plugging a percentage of customers. Well, here you go. OK, well, our churn rate is this amount.

[00:04:15] We have this many customers and attendants. We need to get at least 10 percent expansion sales out of here. So it turns into this whole strategic conversation that this event is no longer just like customer retention. Now it's cross sell upside like expansion goals we need to put to this event. But also we realize, wow, we have a good percentage of prospects company. This is becoming now a lead generating event.

[00:04:42] And we're sitting here crunching these numbers to now I have a goal of getting 80 million dollars worth of pipeline in the room. And I was like, OK, sure, I'm not sales, but OK, so I just needed I needed a couple thousand people. What are you talking about? 80 million pipeline? So I was like, how do I how do I do that? Like, I'm not the salesperson. I can't control this opportunity as pipeline. But it was about am I marketing to the right people or just marketing to everyone?

[00:05:12] So they show like so we get the numbers. You know, we went from this quantity to quality conversation. And Lord, I left there like. Imposter syndrome, like, should I even be leading a team right now? Like, I didn't have the right answers, but I didn't know that's what would be asked of me. I always thought above my pay grade that. Well, then I realized, wait, you got to that above that pay grade level. You're you're that person now. So now this is your pay grade. You should probably start to learn.

[00:05:42] And that changed my whole career trajectory from that point, but also how I lead my team from the start and just what we're doing for for our event program. I mean, I love that story. And I think a lot of them, a lot of people can relate to that story. I think what you did next is what separates people who get it and move up and have the force. Foresight. Is that the right word I'm looking for?

[00:06:10] Who who get the opportunities and the people who then get passed up from someone who has less operational experience. So talk about what happened after that moment. So you get the question. You don't necessarily have the answer, but do you go find it? Do you start talking to sales? Like what? Yeah. Where did you start asking better questions back to them? So as luck would have it, I'm I'm personally a data nerd.

[00:06:38] I love numbers, grew up with my dad in IT at banks and all this. So I've always been that person. And so I sat down and got uncomfortable for a little bit. I started really digging into what our data said and asking the questions. So that meant I started having these weekly alignment calls with MOPS on our lead scoring and our routing models and how we're actually getting the data over into into sales hands.

[00:07:06] Then I'm meeting with sales. You know, there was never that cross collaboration. I had no idea what the sales goals were for the year. I just knew what my contribution to sales goals were. But I never knew what the overarching goal was. So I didn't know that there was now these expansion goals. There was now these cross sell notions or was I'm thinking it's just lead demand gen, demand gen all the time. And that wasn't the case. But I never asked the question to learn.

[00:07:33] And they're busy. They're not thinking, let me go tell the events team what our goals are. You know, we need to be proactive on how are we best supporting. So I started asking those questions. I started getting very comfortable in the data, started understanding the definitions of what I was looking at and started really doing. I started joining weekly pipeline review calls. I asked. I asked my boss, the CMO.

[00:07:57] I said, hey, I know this is more VP, ELT and above, but I'm, you know, I'm leading this team and I need to understand what I'm doing to contribute to this. Can I join? And he was like, of course, like I'm not going to say no. So I started joining these weekly pipeline calls and sometimes none of it was relevant to me, but it was really good to understand as a business how we were doing and what we were bringing into, you know, into the into the business.

[00:08:24] And then that actually came back and didn't just change certain events. It changed my whole entire event portfolio from field all the way to webinars and digital to the bigger corporate plays because we realized we were not doing what sales actually needed to meet their goals. We were just doing events because we've always done them. They're very quick wins. They're run, you know, status quo field programs, but not what moved the needle for sales.

[00:08:53] So everything changed from that moment. I mean, that's incredible. And I think the biggest takeaway for me is just raising your hand and saying, can I sit in this meeting? And then realizing the bigger impact that you have. And more than anything, especially for owned events and corporate, the overlap, you know, if you go to a show like a Cvent Connect for an industry show, for example, it's not just about registration.

[00:09:22] You know, they just bought on 24 and Goldcast. They had a huge price. And so they're selling webinars there. Like, I'm sure they're looking at all of the data and how does that then play? And where what are the webinars they're going to have after? What are the field events they're going to have after? What are they going to replay at their European conference that maybe resonated well in the U.S.? Like, there's so many takeaways that impact the broader scope of the organization.

[00:09:47] I love that you got so curious about it because that's another word that comes up in your book a lot. And sort of the premise of this season of the podcast is all about curiosity. And I love that. So another example I wanted to bring up and have you expand on is you gave a story about a woman who ran three flawless product launches and lost the director role to someone with half of her operational experience.

[00:10:16] And she spent a lot of time, like almost two years trying to build relationships. So how a lot of them, a lot of event people would be like, it's unfair. How does this happen? I can't believe it. But there has to be some accountability and self-reflection in there. So walk us through the story and like what happened. So the clearest answer and like the easiest way to answer it, she did not understand the data.

[00:10:42] And I know that might sound silly, but she, phenomenal. Like planned events, like nobody's business could keep people, kept people, I mean, strategic project planning to a T could keep people aligned, keep them on their mark, get their accountable for what they need to do. Like nothing passed her by. And like I said, she made all these relationships and she had very good relationships. People spoke highly of her.

[00:11:08] But when in the room with executives, could she speak to the true reason why we're doing these launches in the beginning, in the first place, what the impact was? And she just couldn't do that. She was not comfortable with the data. She didn't know how to speak to the data. And she didn't know what it contributed. Obviously, she knew like, oh, well, it gets the product into the market, you know, the basics. But really, truly could not speak to the data.

[00:11:32] Whereas the other person, while yes, have those relationships, they got a lot more into the weeds of what even I had to learn into the numbers, what it meant for that product. Were we able to launch at a certain like trajectory rate? Um, these were all things she understands. She was able to go in and she compared when we released products in years past without launches prior.

[00:11:56] Here's how they performed within their first six months versus as we started to do launches, the difference in actual product adaptation. She went in there and did a whole analysis on that. Yeah, that gives you a little bit more understanding. Major difference in how she positioned herself. So it really was that it was nothing personal. It's just you need someone that is going to speak to that bigger picture and be comfortable with with the data. Yes.

[00:12:26] And something you and I've kind of talked about and to the event person's credit, none of us were ever taught this. We talked about in the main episode how most people in events fall into events. Even those that do go to school for hospitality and event management, they're not even getting trained on this executive acumen. Like they're not getting an MBA on event language. No.

[00:12:53] So like where I have been trying to figure this out and I don't know if there's a right answer, but there's a professional failure to our industry where we have literally put a ceiling on ourselves. And especially from an education standpoint and not to like place blame on anything, but like is this an industry failure? Like name the alphabet soups of associations that support this industry. Like most of them are not teaching this.

[00:13:22] And should they? Should the universities be teaching this? Should most of the time when I am going to hire for my team, I don't actually care if you know events. I want to know like, can you speak business acumen? Do you know the impact? Do you know marketing? I'll teach you how to write a BO and meeting specs. Like those are trainable skills. Yeah. You can't. It takes a lot longer to learn EQ skills and speaking executives.

[00:13:49] So where do we start fixing this gap so that the event person will get the credit that they deserve from doing all of these successful launches? And they should be, they're not speaking the right language. So how do we fix it? I think it's very much a mixture of, well, I don't necessarily think it's schooling, right? I mean, because you can, for example, go to school to be an LPN and they might not ever talk to you about becoming a nurse practitioner.

[00:14:18] Like you can totally move up in your field, right? Like I think there's, you're there to be an LPN. So that is what they're going to focus on, right? They're not focusing on everything else. There might touch on it. However, I think it's a mix of, well, yes, there should be a lot more career trajectory, you know, kind of pathways that are shown to you as you're joining associations. Like, hey, if you really, really love doing more product focused events, well, then maybe a career could be going into product market.

[00:14:46] Like, you know, showing like where else do you fit in? But I think a lot of it is accountability on yourself too. You know, expanding your knowledge set. I'm the first to volunteer for things completely outside my scope. You know, when I was at one company, I was getting so in the weeds on AR, like analyst relations, public relations, because I just always had this willing, like this eagerness to learn because of how closely we work together on bigger corporate initiatives.

[00:15:15] And so now I've been able to broaden to where I can probably run analyst relations at this point because I've done so much with Gartner, Forrester, you know, and smaller analysts of the world.

[00:15:26] And I put myself out there, but it's also, I think it's up to those that have been in the industry for a while to being open to mentoring and help kind of forging that pathway for up and coming event leaders, which is why I wrote the book and did all this stuff to help.

[00:15:45] Because I was very fortunate where a leader that I had at two of my companies, her name's Stephanie, she pulled me into the room, even when I wasn't ready. She would have me sit next to her in meetings. She would kind of throw me into the ocean without floaties on and let me kind of fall a little bit. So that way I learned how to fix the failure, if that makes sense, you know, instead of it getting fixed for me.

[00:16:14] And so she gave me that opportunity to move. And she always said when she ended up leaving the company I was at and I ended up taking over the team, she was like, everything I've done over the past six months is why I believe you should get to this point. And if it wasn't for her, I don't know if I'd have the, you know, courage and the confidence and not even just work and a lot of personal life stuff too. She's been there.

[00:16:42] I don't think I would have had the courage to get outside my comfort zone, get into the data, try these different things, trust that I could do it if it wasn't for having that mentorship. Um, so I do think too, it's, it's up to those that have been in the industry for a while to, to not gatekeep, not feel like everyone's coming for your role because you are older in the career and this, that, and the other thing. And you have new people coming in. And a lot of times we often keep our secrets to ourselves because you're scared.

[00:17:10] The new person's going to take your, stop thinking that way. Um, and really kind of lean in, but also I kind of continuing to educate yourself on anything new and upcoming too. So you can kind of see where do you want to forge your path, um, as an event, as an event person to see how you can grow. Yeah. I love that advice. I also want to double down on that.

[00:17:32] And something I've been talking with quite a few people recently is as events are going to get, they already are sophisticated, but internally they're getting more sophisticated. And how we talk about them. Like you mentioned mops, marketing operations, like there's five or six jobs that all support, support the marketing effort.

[00:17:52] There's, you know, sales enablement, their sales trainers, sales engineers, like that all support AE jobs that do, you know, the customer facing and prospect facing events is just events. But really when we break it down, we have event technologists and we have event operators and we have event strategists. We've got global directors. It's I'm ready for our industry to evolve and have those distinct roles. And I think we're getting there.

[00:18:19] There's a lot more organizations, but I say all of that because like, if you love operations, like if you want to be the boots on the ground, who knows how many registrants, who knows when the food needs to go out and loves picking menus. I would rather die than pick another menu in my life. It's not my thing. I don't care about it. But I know some people that that's their favorite thing is designing menus and designing great, beautiful rooms and experiences. It's not for me. And that's okay.

[00:18:46] And so I just wanted to preface this as we talk about like climbing the ladder and moving up and having strategic conversations. We also need doers. And if you're a doer, that's totally okay. Like we need those on the team too. And I'm ready for a world where those are different lanes and they're important lanes, just like marketing and sales has. Well, and exactly. And listen, at the end of the day, right? There can't be that next level if there's not the doers.

[00:19:12] So they're very much an important part of everything, you know, the same way doctors can't do what they need to do unless there's that team that is taking care of the, you know, the nurses, the aides, the everything. It's like that in every single career. And but we're often just feeling like we're in this little bubble that is so different from everywhere else. Yeah. Okay. So wrapping up the conversation on speaking executive language.

[00:19:38] Someone who wanted to walk into a room with their entire C-suite and not just talk about, well, here's how many registrants we have. Here's how much the budget is going to be in spend or revenue. What are maybe three or four like data points that they should know off the back of their hand that they're going to get asked to like show value when they walk in that room? Yeah.

[00:20:04] So I mean, the first thing I always get asked when I'm having to answer, you know, okay, so we have 600 registrations. What are the logos in the room? So like understanding the like who is in the room? What are the companies and what are what tiering are they if you do any sort of tiering within your company from strategic accounts to, you know, lower tier threes, maybe not as of strategic importance.

[00:20:28] They want to know that because they are becoming more caring over quality of who's in the room versus the quantity amount. Also, what percentage have open opportunities? They want to see what, you know, are any at risk of, you know, churning? Are they coming up for renewal? You know, what current accounts that are in the room are up for renewal in the next six months? Because we might want to do something a little extra special for them.

[00:20:55] So they really want to understand more account based on who is in the room, not just the number of people. And I think to do that, like before going into any of these meetings, you have to be a lot more comfortable with the data. Do your homework. You know, really look at what who's in the room. And when you're looking at it, talk to the sales team. Go on a listening tour. You know, say, hey, so and so, I see six of your accounts on here.

[00:21:24] Two are up for renewal in a few months. One has an open up X million dollars. Give me a little insight on who these are because that can help curate your experiences to make them more impactful and intentional for those people coming on site. Yeah, especially a smaller program, like a couple hundred or less.

[00:21:43] If you see a customer is up for renewal and they're coming to like a small executive retreat, how hard would it be to reach out to the rep and be like, what's their favorite snacks or do they have kids or whatever? And like send a little something to the room. Like, we're so glad you're here. Like, it doesn't have to be a hard salesy thing. Like, those are easy numbers. Okay, one, maybe one other, like a pipeline number, who's in the room, quality over quantity.

[00:22:10] What's something a market, a CMO might ask you in that room? Oh, my CMO is just, I mean, we always do some sort of poll survey. So they want to kind of know based on, you know, how many people are repeat from last year. So, for example, my CMO recently just asked me how many of our registrations for this real summit came last year.

[00:22:34] Because that kind of shows there's a little bit more brand trust and, you know, recognition of who we are within the industry space that they would choose us again. When there's a million AI conferences being split up, they chose us again to invest their time and money into attending. So that would be the other thing is see who your repeats are. See who is developing a consistent, loyal connection to your brand and your company. Because you're going to want to make sure that they're also being recognized.

[00:23:01] Not just the new or those that are bringing in millions and millions of dollars, but those that are really becoming loyal members of your brand community. Yeah, take that even a step further. This is where the data nerd and me goes, okay, if they're a repeat to the event, are they a customer or are they not a customer? If they're coming to our event and they're not a customer, what does that signal tell us? What does sales or marketing need to do to try to convert that?

[00:23:27] And if they are a customer and they keep coming back, what does that say about their loyalty to the brand and the product and what they love? Exactly. I think that's super great advice. Okay, let's take a step back for a second because also how this book came to be was really fascinating to me because when you started, you didn't actually start out to write a book. You'd been journaling for a long time and it wasn't until someone pointed out to you that like you actually have a framework and a book here.

[00:23:55] So walk us through like how this even came to life. Oh my God. So everything, you know, over the last 18 years, you know, obviously you go through a lot of stuff, but I would say a couple years ago, once I started really diving into a more broader leadership role, not just events,

[00:24:19] it really, I really sat down and kind of thought about how everything I was doing in my role could apply to other areas of marketing as I took those areas of marketing over.

[00:24:29] And, you know, so I'm thinking about ways that every single thing, whether it's a new campaign launch or a product launch or an event, or we're doing podcasts, you know, a podcast tour, whatever this is, you know, there's three key things that, you know, everyone needs to make these decisions. And that is, you know, the strategy behind why you're doing it. You know, what, what is the actual reason? Like, why are we investing?

[00:24:59] Why are we doing this? What is this bringing to the business? And then, you know, there's that alignment that you need. Are the right people involved? Do I have the right teams to help execute on whatever this may be? And again, this is across everything. And then it's scale. Is this something I can scale across not only an event portfolio, but across marketing, across sales, across the business as a whole?

[00:25:26] And so I started jotting down and, you know, doing all these different variations across different departments on how strategy alignment scale applies. And I was like, this could actually be something. This could be a really cool, a cool framework. Like, this is, this is awesome. And my mentor, again, we were talking, she was like, oh, that's so funny. Our initials are SAS too. And I was like, they are. Sarah Ann Straw. That's so funny. And so we were like, let's name it the SAS framework, you know, because then it could be applied to me.

[00:25:55] I could take it and it could be something different, you know, or it's strategy alignment and scale. And I would just jot down different things. Like, you know, I used to do this when I was a kid where I would like write one-liners that were almost like haiku poems, right? And then at the end of the month, I would take all these one-liners and I would write a song from them. I always was a big songwriter. And I started doing that too for other things. If I experienced this, I would have a notebook. Like I said, I'm pretty old school.

[00:26:23] So I have about like six or seven notebooks. And I would just write down like something that happened to me. And then I would mark it with an S and A or an S. Or I would write out scale, to be honest, because, you know, two S's. And I would write out where, and I would mark where it fit within the framework. And then I noticed a pattern. Every single thing I was doing hit these three points over and over and over and over again. And I was like, okay, let's put this together into something.

[00:26:53] And so then I just started building. And then I just sat down one day and started writing. And then I did hire an editor to come in and help, you know, kind of edit things and flush things out. And because I tend to be very wordy. I keep it short and sweet. That does not apply to me. I'm a very detail-oriented person. And she was like, okay, your book is like 600 pages. Let's get it down to like two something. I'm like, okay. Because I just, I could talk all day, as you can see.

[00:27:21] So it same goes into my writing. I could just write, write, write. I think every leader in my life has told me, Sarah, we need a more succinct girl. You gotta cut some stuff out. I mean, I could become a CMO one day and I'll probably still be writing a novel on a QBR. So that's, you know, that's kind of how it all started. I would just write down little stories or things that happened. And then I got a bit serious and sat down and really started writing. What does this mean? And how can somebody else apply this to their life?

[00:27:51] And I talked to some of the people I've mentored to just say, hey, how have I helped you? Like, I don't mean to sound like selfish, but how have I helped you? Because I really would like to know because I want to help other people. And what didn't I do well, please? Because I want to refine that. And so I started doing a manager survey every six months with my direct reports where instead of me just reviewing them during review period, I had them review me. Like, what was I doing wrong and right as a manager? And what could I improve upon?

[00:28:20] And that also helped guide how I wrote this book to help others in the industry. I love it. So give us a little sneak peek. I don't want to like give the whole book away, but walk us through like, what is the SAS framework? How would someone apply that? And specifically around scale? Because I think we talk, we use that word a lot. We talk about scale, but it means a lot of things to a lot of different people. So walk us through the framework. How would someone apply it?

[00:28:49] And then what does scale really mean in this context? Yeah. So the framework really is just, it's my way of making decisions. Right. And so it's basically, you know, some people do it where they just, they don't even have to think about it. I, I unfortunately am one of those people. Everything has to be written down. I have to think about it. I have to make very much data informed decisions. It's just, it's just who I am.

[00:29:17] And so, you know, I have been asking the same questions over and over and over again, and the industries change and companies change, et cetera. But I realized there is a lot of consistency and everything always kind of fell back into that same pattern of themes. Like, why are we doing this? Who's involved? And then how can we make this impactful across the business?

[00:29:43] And so from that, you know, was basically how strategy alignment scale was born, you know? So are we doing, are we following the right strategy that kind of supports the overall business goals and business, you know, business strategies? So think about it when you're doing a flagship user conference, you know, you have, you have business goals of X amount of ARR for the year. Maybe you're a fully remote company. You know, you don't have offices.

[00:30:13] I've worked with companies that don't have any single offices whatsoever. So hosting the user conference wasn't just a way to bring people together to close sales. It was also, this was our way to meet with our customers in person and have those like one-on-one connections, you know, those experiences that are really intentional and matter. And, you know, with that, it was how did it support the business?

[00:30:37] And then are the right people involved in bringing in their decisions, right? And this goes back to sales. I was not having those conversations with sales when I was in that meeting that first time. So I knew after that, I had to get a lot closer to sales and really align with them and make sure are we on the same page is what we're doing as an event organization, supporting your goals for your department and what you have for your fiscal year.

[00:31:04] And, you know, is there that shared vision of success, right? Because product wants one thing out of a conference, you know, sales wants their thing. You have the executive team that wants their thing, brand marketing that wants their, everyone has their reasons for doing it. What is that nucleus? So like, what is that main core reason? And once you have all that, then it's okay, how can this be delivered consistently across,

[00:31:31] you know, and sustainably across the organization in order to grow, you know? And so how are you scaling that? And that's where the scale comes in. It's not just about scale as in, can we do a million more events? It's scale is how are we consistently bringing this program to life across the organization to then develop it into a flagship conference or get, go from 80 million and pipe in the room this year to a hundred million next year into a hundred.

[00:31:58] And, you know, how do you, how do you scale it to get up to that point? And it could be something as little as, you know, a place I worked for every single year changed the name of their event, changed it. So every year was a new event. There was no consistency there at all. Well, one of the simplest ways to scale this and to make it consistent is let's give this event its own brand and its own naming convention that then grows with it.

[00:32:27] And you could take it and then you establish that trust, you establish that thing, you know, say it's just like with Dreamforce, you know, you know, Dreamforce. So Dreamforce every year, people know it. But if Dreamforce changed their name every single year, you wouldn't know what's happening or they probably wouldn't have the 50,000 plus person conference they have. And so that is something simple that can go into how do you scale? It could be something that, that simple. But it's something that, you know, I'm even right now at the company I'm at now.

[00:32:57] I mean, that's something we're, we're doing is how do we bring that brand trust, that brand consistency to be able to scale this program into a real true global flagship for, for our company. But yeah, that's, that's really how it all came about. And it's, it's all each same thing of that. It goes back to asking the right questions. You know, if you're not doing that and if you're not kind of challenging the status quo and

[00:33:21] getting a little bit uncomfortable, you know, by asking, then you're not, you're not going to succeed in, in growing your career, number one, but your program is probably not going to succeed because it's not going to have that longevity that you want it to have or the impact for the business. Yeah. I love, love all of that. Love it. Okay. So hard left pivot, cause we're going to take a little break before we keep talking about all of the like data nerdy and scale stuff of the book. So we're going to take a quick Bravo break.

[00:33:50] Cause you're another Bravo fan girly. Yeah. Uh, so to, before I want to get into the real story that I've been like sitting on, I can't wait for people to know about this. Um, what is your favorite Bravo show? Oh my God. I have so many. Uh, but I think right now, oh gosh. I mean, I love all the housewives, but this year I was really into summer house and in the

[00:34:19] city because I, I just couldn't help but follow all the drama with, um, Thailand. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She blew up her life for absolutely no reason. But Southern charm will always probably be my number one favorite because I happened to be in Charleston when they were filming relationship when Shep was doing that relationship show. And I went to the Gentry with, um, I was there for actually a conference and I went to the

[00:34:44] Gentry with my team for some dinner and drinks and we had to sign an NDA when we joined cause they were filming there. And I have a picture with both Craig and Austin. Is Austin as tall and handsome as everyone says he is? Yes. He's a very handsome guy. Craig is the sweetest thing on earth. The sweetest. I sat and talked to them. I asked Shep for a picture and it was a little, my friend was like having trouble. I was like, oh, just get, he's like, yeah, I know how cameras work. Thanks. I was like, ew. Like he was not nice.

[00:35:12] Um, but Craig and Austin were actually the sweetest. I sat at the bar and had drinks with them. Oh, that's super fun. Yeah. They seem like really cool people. I would like to hang out with them. And I did get confirmation this morning and I'm having such mixed feelings about it that they are scoping a real housewives of Montana right now. Oh, yeah. And it's mixed feelings. Like you don't want it to happen. You're like, oh, I don't need the spotlight on my like paradise, but. Part of that. Yes.

[00:35:42] And the other part is they're looking in Gallatin County, which is where Bozeman is. So that's like four and a half, five hours for me. But. Okay. I know they're going to end up filming in my valley because Whitefish is here. It's very bougie. Lots of second homes. But then. It's like Aspen to. Yeah. Yeah. It's the Aspen of Montana is what they call it. But the part that kind of irked me is outside of Bozeman is the Yellowstone Club. Everyone has heard of the famous Yellowstone Club.

[00:36:10] I was about to say, do you think this is because of like the insane fandom that Yellowstone, Dutton Ranch and all those have had? Okay. So they're like two separate things. So Yellowstone, the show and the Yellowstone Club are two very, very different things. Yeah. And the Yellowstone Club is the Yellowstone Club because of its privacy. And like that's why it's such a like celebrity one percenter hotspot because they don't ever allow stuff like this.

[00:36:35] So now these and the people who are going to go on that show are not real Montanans. It's going to be the people that live here for, you know, a few months out of the year who like play Montana. Yeah. So I have mixed feelings. Like, am I excited that Montana is going to get spotlighted? Sure. But like, I don't think these are going to be real Montana women. It's called Los Angeles for a reason. And I actually kind of don't want them to film at the Yellowstone Club. Like it's private for a reason. Let them be private.

[00:37:05] Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's one of those. And are they going to give Montana a bad name? You know what I mean? Because they're not true. You know? Yeah. I mean, the Yellowstone shows and we love them. Don't get me wrong. But they haven't necessarily done all amazing things for the state of Montana. So I don't know. We'll see. We'll see. I have mixed feelings. I mean, obviously, I would love for their favorite housewives of Montana. But Salt Lake is one of my favorite housewives franchise. I love that.

[00:37:35] Okay, we digress. So your favorite housewife is Bethany Frankel. Yes. I love her. We love Bethany Frankel. And you actually got to go on her talk show. And not just go to a taping of the talk show. You actually were like on the show. So tell us. Let's spill the tea. How did you get on Bethenny Frankel's show? So back when she was filming her show, I was living in Manhattan. Right? And, you know, I would always look because the second she had a show, I was like, oh, my God, I got to go.

[00:38:04] So I bought tickets or did I get tickets? I don't remember if it was free or not. But I got tickets to the taping of her show. And it happened to be the sleepover episode with Joey Fatone and Adrienne Ballion, I think is her name. I'm not sure. A hundred percent. But they were guests on there and you had a dress in your pajamas. I wear a hot pink robe, hair and pigtails. Like it was so fun. I went with one of my friends, Amy, from college. So we go.

[00:38:32] Well, before we went, they had called like random audience members and said, hey, do you have a WTF story that you would want to share on the Frankel show? And I was like, well, sure. So I told him my story. I don't know if it's appropriate to say here. I mean, you could say anything you want.

[00:38:55] Well, so I had a I was like, well, yeah, one time in the middle of enjoying myself with my partner, they answered the phone call and had a whole conversation with their sister. Like just, you know, in the middle. And so I don't know why, but when I'm uncomfortable, I get very inappropriate. And that was my story because I was so uncomfortable and fell on the spot that I gave the most like personal story. I was like, they loved it.

[00:39:24] Of course they did. Who wouldn't love that story? That's like reality TV talk show gold. Yeah. They were like, what? So I was like, yeah. And so they accepted me. So I had to get to the studio for the taping like a little bit early, like a half an hour earlier. They put a bunch of us like any audience member, they were going to like call their name and stuff. They put us in a waiting room and producers came in and they pulled us out one by one.

[00:39:54] They're like, okay, you know, Bethany is going to say your name. So how can you like react? Like you're surprised that your name is called. So I had to practice being like, oh, it's me. Wait, what? Oh my God. I know. Thank God for my theater degree. You know, got to practice being so surprised. Um, and everything was good. So we get into the studio, you know, obviously they have you, if you notice, like they have you sitting pretty much on the aisle. So I'm sitting on the aisle.

[00:40:24] We're getting all this free stuff from Soma Intimates. We got pajamas. We got a new pillow, face stuff, all this cool giveaway stuff. You know how they do it. Yeah. And all of a sudden they get to the WTF segment and they're like, I think someone named Sarah has something to say. And so I jump up and she comes up and I say it. Now she does not know what I'm going to say. She doesn't get briefed on it. So she can have a true reaction. She like literally, she's standing. I wish I could show you how she did it.

[00:40:54] She's standing and I say my thing and she literally does like one of those slow falls to the ground. Like you're joking. She was like, and you didn't break up with him? And I was like, no. And then Joey's like, nope, he's got a second family. He was talking to his other family. And Adrian's like, you really think she wouldn't have heard that? And I was like, oh no, he lives with his mom. This story just gets better.

[00:41:24] So it was like a whole thing. And it was really, really funny and embarrassing. And it was the highlight of my life that like my family watched it and it mortified my father. And my father and my cousin were just like, you know, because up until that I'm the baby girl. My dad thought I was, you know, like her as a mom. So it was, yeah, it was definitely a fun moment. But one I will never forget because I got to meet my absolute idol.

[00:41:51] Was she everything you hoped she would be? I thought, I think she's the nicest person. And I felt, but obviously she was filming her show. So I didn't see her outside of still being at work. But to me, she, I, I, yeah, I love her. I will always be a Bethany fan. So if you head to Palm Beach, you're definitely going to the new supermodel cafe. Yes. Okay. Well, sounds like we have a trip to Florida in our future. Yes. I love it. Okay.

[00:42:20] Well, last couple of topics I want to dive into with our, after our nice Bravo break here. One thing we haven't touched on yet is we did over, almost overlapped at the same company on different sides. And I think one of your superpowers in the industry is bringing event teams in house, pulling anyone who touches events together. Again, that alignment, unification we've talked about. And we lived on other ends of it. And I was really proud.

[00:42:48] I don't know if I've ever said this to you out loud, but to watch what you did. I'm just going to say the name. We both worked at RingCentral. I worked specifically in the channel department, siloed, very, very siloed over there and fought my way to work with the global team. It ended up being somewhat of my demise when that happened. And then to watch you come in and completely transform and pull together the partner team

[00:43:16] and field and webinars and all, anyone who was touching events and corporate enter this global model. It was, I was sad that I had kind of been a little bit forced out and left because I would have loved to work under that team. And I think could have had a great impact and would have loved, loved, loved the opportunity to work with you. So that's a really long winded to say one congratulations because you've done this a few times now.

[00:43:43] But why is that so important to have field marketing and partner, you know, working through the channel and the global team and, you know, even some of the digital stuff that goes on in events? Like, why does that all need to actually be together? Yeah, I think I'm a big believer that there needs to be visibility. There needs to be that unity. And then also that support.

[00:44:11] I think when things are so separate, you feel like you're on your own island and you can't, you know, you're almost on a treadmill running to nowhere. And by bringing it all together, I feel like you finally get that support system that you're lacking, especially because in the events industry, we're often seen as this nice to have, not this strategic lever or this must have function of a business. And by coming together, it makes you feel part of something bigger.

[00:44:37] And so just for overall, I'm a, anyone will tell you, I choose jobs based on culture, not salary, not title, none of that. And I'm big on culture. And so establishing that type of almost family environment, you know, is very important to me because of the trust you need. We're spending, you know, 15 hours on site with each other. We have to like each other too, right? And so I'm really big on developing a culture and bringing a team together for that reason.

[00:45:06] The reason why, you know, RingCentral, I will always say is probably one of the most pivotal points in my career as far as my growth and developing me into a leader. Um, it's when I first started hiring my first like team and like got to learn, like, I'm pretty good at hiring people and, you know, bringing people in that are smarter than me. Um, and all of that. But, you know, like you said, the partner events were handled so separately. Webinars was over here. Corporate events was sitting over here.

[00:45:35] Field was all over there. And there is somewhat of an argument that could be made that field should maybe sit in field, right? Because they're directly aligned to the field strategy and field goals and sales goals, etc. But I personally am someone who disagrees. I think that events as a whole should be ran as a whole. There should be the global and, you know, regional event organizations.

[00:46:00] You have your corporate events that are setting that kind of center of excellence, if you will. You know, they're setting the strategy, how we show up as an organization, whether you're in APJ, EMEA, US, or you're doing a dinner, a trade show, or a big corporate program. There needs to be that uniformity of how we're showing up in the market. Obviously, with localization, where it matters, things like that, right?

[00:46:27] And then you have your digital, because to me, digital is also very regional. You might do different types of digital programs, webinars, depending on what region you're in, etc. With the field. But then there's that partner, right? And so while some events at Ring, even when I took over and made everything under an umbrella, were still handled a bit separately from a partner standpoint, a lot did end up from a strategic partner event perspective.

[00:46:54] So your AWS is of the world, workday, etc. Those then came under my umbrella because they do have direct sales rolling into them. You know, there's a direct sales component to those events. There's also a brand and corporate component to those events. It is not just about that partner channel. And so because it touches so many different key areas, it's good to have it holistically under, you know, one umbrella. So that way, there is that overarching shared vision and goals.

[00:47:23] And, you know, I call them my five pillars, you know, those pillars. And then the execution is then, you know, this and that. And my field team would still dot line into their regions. You know, they were still very much accountable for that. But at least they had that one leader then that can advocate for them, make them feel like they are part of this bigger picture and not just off in their own bubble. Yeah, I agree. And the money savings, I don't know if you ever like sat down and quantified like how much

[00:47:52] money gets saved when you have a unified global events team and the negotiation power and you don't have everyone just reaching out to random reps all the time. And the efficiency and money saved on that is I've never sat down and done the math, but I can only imagine how astronomical it is. Well, one example, I mean, obviously across the board, I can't even tell you how much we saved in just time and energy.

[00:48:19] But by joining teams and making our team a lot bigger where if my EMEA webinar person was out, my EMEA field person could help pick up the slack. Like we were able to share that to the point where the webinar team pretty much used an agency for almost all execution. Once I took over the team, that agency was gone. And right there, we saved $130,000 a year by getting rid of that agency because now I had webinars built into my field program.

[00:48:49] So now my field marketers were becoming more than just events, field events. They were becoming true field marketers. They were able to do webinars. They could do sponsored news ads by working with the centralized paid team. But they were able to help like guide, okay, hey, in Singapore, we have to show up differently than we do in Germany. We have to show up differently than we do in here. So they're able to localize more and kind of guide the global paid team on, hey, this is where we need to be showing up from paid placements, this and that.

[00:49:18] They weren't just seen as these events people in the market anymore. Yeah, I completely agree. Well, I love the approach. I'm bummed we didn't get to cross paths. And I was, like I said, sitting from the sidelines and watching what you did after I left was so impressive because it needed to be done very, very badly. And maybe one day our paths will cross again. And we'll, I mean, look, we're already working together right now. Who knows what the universe has? Okay.

[00:49:45] So speaking of last couple of things as we're wrapping up here, one of the other things you do on top of the like 3000 hats that you wear is you have a coaching business, you have some consulting that you do on the side and something that you and I've talked about. And this goes to like every entrepreneur or corporate planner who's been laid off, who's like, I'll just start my own thing. The hardest thing for me, and I think one of the hardest things for you is really the pricing anxiety. And how do you charge?

[00:50:15] What do you charge? Like the discounts, upgrading, downgrading offerings? Like how did you start kind to figure this out? Because it wasn't until probably the last like six weeks for me that I realized like how egregiously undercharging I was for some of the work that I do that I finally was like, oh my God, I've got to take a step back and like reevaluate some of the stuff I'm offering and what I'm doing for people. Because it honestly, at the end of the day, I'm doing a disservice to the market because now

[00:50:44] some of these clients have an expectation that the work I'm delivering at that price is normal and it is certainly not normal. Oh, yeah. I don't think I necessarily have it fully figured out because there's still times I think I'm way overcharging and I'm just like, I wonder why I didn't get that client. Because, you know, I sent out an RFP and I wasn't chosen. I'm like, it was probably because of my price. Not because maybe it just wasn't a fit or didn't line. I automatically assumed it was because of my price.

[00:51:11] Um, so I don't know if I necessarily have it figured out, but I do know my worth and I do know the value I have. And also I try not to compartmentalize what I'm doing or what I'm doing to an extent. Like a lot of people would look at, for example, I have a, you know, a 90 minute, you know, career strategy session where we go over, you know, what is your goal in your career? Where do you see yourself in six months, a year, two years?

[00:51:38] And then from that call, I then help put together your kind of two year, two year plan to get you to where you want to be in your career. Um, and then I offer packages for continued coaching, whatever. Well, I look at that and transparently I charged $4.95 for that 90 minute session. And a lot of us might look at like, oh my God, $4.95 for only an hour and a half worth of work. Like when I look at my salary at my full-time job, break it down, that's what?

[00:52:07] But then I have to think, okay, but I'm also then spending hours after doing your plan for you and getting that there's the communications lady, like you forget about all the other stuff you're doing and you look at just this little compartment of what you're charging for. And then I'm like, okay, actually, am I charging enough? Like you start to doubt yourself the other way. Um, and then, yeah, like with discounts and stuff like that, like I always think because

[00:52:35] I know someone or I've worked with them, I have to give them a discount. It's the right thing to do. But at the same time, my sales associate at Sephora knows me at this point because I'm there once a week. She doesn't give me a discount because she knows me now. So the analogy is spot on. You're so right. But I do. So anyway, because I'm just that person. I mean, I do too. I get it. Oh, and one thing you didn't say in talking about the value and why you price the way is

[00:53:04] not just the work you're going to do after the 90 minute call. It's also the 20 years of experience of having lived in breath, all of that. Like, you know, that's worth way more than $4.95. I mean, you're, they are hiring you to coach them to get to where you are after you've made all the mistakes for 20 years. I think I like to leave that out because the whole fact that I've had a 20 year career and I'm only 20. What are we talking about? I mean, of course. I like to forget where I am in my age.

[00:53:33] So what are you talking about 20 years? I did. The realization hit me recently that so many of us that started the industry together, like in my brain, we're still the new kids on the block, like learning and whatever. And then I sat around the room with like all my like peers. And I was like, oh my gosh, guys, like we're on the precipice of like senior leadership. Like, yeah, we're all at VP level and above now. Like some of you are interviewing for like C-suite jobs.

[00:54:03] I'm like, what? In my brain, we're still the like 20 somethings, like running around learning everything. We're the Anne Hathaways of the acting industry. There's still the Meryl Streep's out there. We're now the Anne Hathaways. Like we're now in that pivot. And now you have, you know, the younger one. I'd like just saying. It's wild. It's so wild. Okay. Well, as we're wrapping up here, I like to close out every after show with a curiosity card.

[00:54:32] So you get to pick one, two or three. So like pink, purple or yellow. Yellow. I'm going to go with the yellow because there's a little greenish stuff going. That's my favorite color. Okay. What's your origin story and how did you land in this industry? Well, I mean, I kind of gave it earlier. So my origin story. Yeah. My origin story was, you know, I will take it from the theater.

[00:54:56] You know, I worked in theater and it wasn't the most, you know, financially, you know, lucrative thing that you could do. And my friend was working at a company that was looking for an executive assistant to the CMO. And I got the job. And within only a couple months, because I planned, helped plan President's Club as her, you know, assistant. She was sales and marketing. Sorry. She was like, you're really good at this. We need someone to start doing trade shows because we're going to be doing trade shows.

[00:55:25] I was at a background screening company at the time. And so I was like, all right, let's, let's start doing it. And so here, here we are, you know, all these years later, um, started as a theater girl to an EA to, to events. I absolutely love it. It's, it's a great journey and we're all better for it. Having started in trade shows, you learn a lot when you start on that side of the world. Still doing it too. I mean, they're a love hate for me. I love to hate them.

[00:55:55] Me too. And then you get on the show floor and you're like, oh my God, the move in day with like all the crates and you just hear the beeping. It's fun. And then you network and it's, it's, I like, you get to go to some cool places too. And yeah. The load in setup days are like the calm of the storm. And like my absolute favorite moment is going to the Mention Center at like five in the morning when no one else is there and you're just walking with your binder, your iPad or whatever.

[00:56:21] And you're just checking rooms in silence with coffee, calm before the storm. It's like the greatest moment. Truly. It is. Well, Sarah, thank you so much. This conversation was everything. So I so appreciate you. Um, so I'm going to plug the book again, the experience executive. We're going to link to it in the show notes. So please go find it. But Sarah, tell everyone where they can find you, where they can follow along. And hire you to do some consulting and coaching. Yeah.

[00:56:49] I mean, definitely check out my website. It's just Sarah, no H, um, and no E, uh, straw. So Sarah and straw.com there. You can see everything from resources I've made to how to work with me as an advisor, but also how to purchase the book as well. Um, and then also if you go on Spotify and if you have some interest in solo travel, I have the solo travel woman podcast. So feel free to go check that out and get yourself some, some advice and motivation to get out

[00:57:19] there and explore the world. Um, if you haven't already. Amazing. Well, thanks for tuning in to another event about it after show because the best conversations always start after the show ends until next time. Stay curious.