How to Innovate Without Inventing

[00:00:07] Hey everybody, welcome back to Event About It, the Dynamic Dialogue After Show. I'm your host, Megan Martin, and I am blessed to be here with Diana Kander today. So for anyone just joining us in the after show, we owe you a quick introduction. Diana is a New York Times bestselling author of All In Startup and The Curiosity Muscle, and a brand new book going to be coming out very soon, Get Curious and Grow. There's a few others in there I'm sure I missed. She came to the US. I'm a problem.

[00:00:34] She loves writing guys and we're going to get into it because you have a very unique way that you write your books that I think is fascinating and most people don't do. She came to the US as a refugee from the Soviet Union, became a Georgetown Law graduate, founded around 10 companies, just, you know, just a few, served as a senior fellow at the Kauffman Foundation and now spends her time as one of the most booked innovation and curiosity keynote speakers in the country.

[00:01:01] So before we dig into all your genius, I think one of the things I connected with you the most about in our prep call is we were both talking about how uncomfortable we feel on camera. And it has taken me a really long time to get comfortable on camera, especially with having RBF. And for those that don't know, that's resting bitch face. So no, as we go through this, like if it looks like I'm zoned out, I'm actually very tuned in. I just have horrible RBF when it comes to it.

[00:01:30] The worst affliction. It's the worst, right? So why do cameras feel scarier to you than say a keynote stage or even a comedy club? Like you've done stand-up comedy before. So why virtual interviews feel harder than being in front of like a live audience? Okay, this is going to be shocking to you, but I've been getting coaching on this actually. And I think I'm afraid to be seen in a one-on-one environment.

[00:01:58] And the stage is actually a safe place for me. You know, when there's a thousand people in the room, it's easier to perform as opposed to connect. And I think that's what's been holding me back from – because I said no when you first asked me to do a podcast. And I was like, I'm terrible at these. And I'm feeling much more comfortable at it because I have been getting a lot of coaching on how to be okay with connecting with somebody on camera. Well, I love that.

[00:02:27] And I think it is. And I think most people would feel the opposite. So it's really interesting to me. But I also love that you're like leaning into it more and getting curious yourself on getting better at it. I love it. I love it. Well, one of the things you've written about and posted many times is you've said fear is an indicator of what we really want.

[00:02:49] And so where is there a point between trusting your gut as an indicator that I'm on the right path versus fear as a guardrail? Like don't touch the stove because it's not. Where is it healthy? I think you know in your gut when something is – just seems so interesting and it's where you want to go. And then your brain's like, but I'm not good enough. And I'm – you know, I don't have the experience. And I don't do a good job at this.

[00:03:17] I think that's the kind of fear that we can all overcome with practice and with coaching and with iteration. It's different than the don't touch a stove fear, you know? I agree. I just had this conversation and something so superficial like playing pickleball. And I was just like, I'm not good at not being good at things. And it takes a lot of time to be good at it. And so how can someone push past that? Because I think for a lot of us, we just label it imposter syndrome. I'm not good at this, even if you are.

[00:03:46] So like how do you find that alternative compass to push through some of that fear as an indicator? I think the key is to lower the stakes. So you put the stakes up in your head. It has to be this. And I'm not going to meet that standard. And so what can you do to lower the stakes for whether you're – I've been – this is going to sound so silly. But I have been getting coaching in how to connect with people one-on-one. And I have been practicing in my everyday conversations.

[00:04:13] I used to have a lot of trouble making eye contact with people in conversations. And so I've been just practicing in a non-recorded format making eye contact. I know that sounds so silly coming from a professional speaker. But I'm a refugee growing up. Like personal safety is a big deal for me. And somehow being seen was like scary for me. And so I just lower the stakes and try it in places that don't matter to get comfortable. Look at us. I feel like I'm crushing this right now.

[00:04:42] I mean, you are crushing this right now. All of your practice and coaching is paying off. You're crushing it. Yeah. I love it. I am still sweating profusely, just to be totally honest. I mean, I'm sweating profusely with the fact that I'm getting the chance to sit here and talk to you today. So we're a mutual company. We're just, you know, sweaty humans figuring it out as we go. So what does it cost you to keep saying yes to the things that scare you? And is there a time where someone should decide that this cost is not worth it?

[00:05:11] That I tried it and it's not for me. Like, where's that line? I think happiness comes from a lot of different places for people. But for me, it comes from progress, making progress. And if I'm not growing or stretching or trying, then I become sad. So I just need to keep growing and learning new things in order to be in a place of joy and fulfillment. And so that's what keeps pushing me past that fear. Yeah, same.

[00:05:37] I think I've spent a lot of time getting comfortable in the uncomfortable because the status quo and we've always done it that way didn't work for me, which is why my career has ended up so very windy and not really a traditional way, which we're going to talk about here in a second. And that is the reinvention, right? So you talk all about evolution, reinventing. So most of us are told in our lives to pick a career, climb the ladder.

[00:06:07] That works for some people. It does not work for a lot. Myself, I have, I'm too curious. I have too much ADHD going on. Like, I want to know all the things. So climbing career ladder didn't work for me. So what would you say to someone sitting in a similar seat where they're maybe feeling flat on a plateau in career or maybe something personal? Like, where would they start thinking about reinvention? I heard this great podcast with these two Stanford professors.

[00:06:35] They teach a course on designing your life. And I think they said that each of us has seven chapters in our lives. So like seven different versions of ourselves. And most people think it's just one and they're kind of stuck in the one that they picked. But once you accept that, oh, I have seven different versions of me that I could be, that's incredibly freeing. Because you're like, maybe I'm ready for the next one, you know? And that next one can be grossly different than the ones before.

[00:07:01] And you don't need to feel bad about like, you don't need to feel like you're ungrateful for what's happened. You've just changed and you're a different version of yourself than you were five years ago. And it's okay if the stuff that you wanted before and you got isn't doing it for you, you know? Yeah, I completely agree. And when we put a career and professional lens on it, and one of the things you talk about in your books is reinventing your role.

[00:07:25] So and I've had some guests on in the past who have really kind of gone wide in their career and moved from events to marketing and to partnerships and to product and ended up getting this really well-rounded portfolio. So where's the difference between reinventing your role and reinventing yourself? And I think a lot of event people specifically get that confused. I have a ghost mentor. Okay, that's like a mentor I've never met before. But it's a person I've learned a lot from. His name is Ewing Kaufman.

[00:07:55] And he was a very successful entrepreneur in Kansas City. And he said, you should never take a job. You should always make a job. So even if you're employed, you shouldn't wait for an opening. You should say, oh, here's an opportunity to do this, this and this. And I'm going to offer to get it done for organizations. And if you create a job, you're going to be so much more satisfied in the role. So I would say try to create as many different variations inside of an organization.

[00:08:22] And if you can't, then maybe it's time to leave and find the next version of yourself. Yeah, I agree. And what about not every organization is open to reinvention. So what if someone is inside an org? They don't necessarily have an opportunity to leave right now. They need the job. They need the stability, whatever reason. So where do they approach leadership to start the reinvention? Or do they just do it and not ask for permission?

[00:08:51] I just think most people limit the number of options that they have in their own mind. So just do a bad job and go find another job while you're looking. You know, just most people think, well, I have this. It's either this job or not. And I would say, why don't you create 10 different options for yourself? And then pick between those about which one you would do. Because in many cases, if you were to be given this role as an option, you would not pick it.

[00:09:19] If there was anything else to compare it to. And you're the person in charge of creating the optionality for yourself. It's just most people are scared to even go look or apply. And I just think lower the stakes and say to yourself, I'm not going to accept any of these jobs. This is just for fun. You know, I'm just going to see what's out there. And talk to people in my network to say, do you know of anything? And that will create options for you. And then you get to choose. Because I feel like they think they have no choice at the moment.

[00:09:49] And I want to create options for myself whenever possible. Yeah, I love that advice. Well, one of the things you've been great at is we've talked about how you started, you know, at least 10 companies. There's probably more if we rethink about what's starting, like organics. But one of the ones that you're very open about talking was the very first software company you started at basically 29, coming out of law school, a ton of angel money coming in.

[00:10:16] And then you basically realized the wheels were coming off and it wasn't going to land with the audience the way you thought. So take us through the moment you knew it wasn't going to work the way you initially intended. And you had to sort of, God forbid we use the word pivot anymore, but you reinvented what that product meant in the market. So our product identified a really big problem in the marketplace, but my solution didn't solve the problem.

[00:10:43] And I knew that because in order to log into our software, you had to use your Facebook and LinkedIn. And I knew everyone who was using it. And there were actually more competitors using it than our own customers. So I could tell it's not going well, you know. And the biggest aha for me was that I learned that I didn't have to spend all the money to build the software to learn that it wasn't going to work.

[00:11:09] There was a stage earlier where I could have tested the idea with just email and an Excel spreadsheet to know that people wouldn't take these actions. And that aha was so painful for me because I'm like, oh, I just wasted a year of my life, hundreds of thousands of dollars. And I wish I could do it again, you know. And I started journaling about everything that I learned. And that journal turned into my first book. And the book became a New York Times bestseller.

[00:11:39] It's taught in over 100 universities to teach entrepreneurship and innovation. And the worst thing professionally that ever happened to me turned into the best thing professionally that ever happened to me because it started a brand new career. And now everyone's like, oh, I could just vibe code that. I'll make my own app. I'll be a software SaaS company. And I have a few friends diving into that. And the first thing I did was send them your book, actually. Sent it to both of them.

[00:12:07] So when did you actually, like, what's the lesson from that experience? Was it you turned a very hard situation into a learning moment that you're now, I mean, decades later still helping all these people? Or is there another takeaway that you learned from that time of your life? Yeah, the biggest lesson was don't spend all your resources on version one. Give yourself the runway of five, seven versions and say, I'm going to spend one-fifth of the resources to build the first iteration.

[00:12:37] And in today's day and age, almost no resources, you know. And then I'm going to learn and then I'm going to iterate it better and then I'm going to iterate it better instead of expecting your initial plan to be successful because that works almost never. Yeah, there's actually a book sitting on my shelf right here by Gary Shapiro. He used to be the president of CTA, Consumer Technology Association. They run CES, all of that. And his book's called Pivot or Die.

[00:13:02] And it's basically an entire book of all these inventors, entrepreneurs who completely changed their product because the first version didn't work the way they thought it would. I love that. So, okay. One thing about events, like this is great in theory, but when it comes to events and we apply it to events and marketing, the runway is so long. So you really only have one shot to get it right.

[00:13:28] And then you don't have the event sometimes again for another 12, 18, sometimes three years. So what's an advice you could have for event people who have such a long gap in between their experiment timelines? Like what could they do for that? So I spent two years as entrepreneur in residence at H&R Block and they had the exact same problem. They were like, there is a very specific month and a half in which everyone does their taxes and we can't mess that up.

[00:13:56] And we can't, you know, we only have one shot at experiments before we have to wait a whole 12-month cycle. And to that, I would say like we can run experiments all year long. You're just thinking about experimentation differently. It doesn't have to happen inside the event. You could be running a series of experiments a year before, you know, two years before. In fact, just conversations with potential attendees, that's an experiment.

[00:14:22] It's for you to say, hypothetically, these are the sessions that we think are valuable. Now, let me go talk to people who have attended for the last, you know, three years and say, who were your favorite speakers from the last couple of events? What was your least favorite thing? And then the experiment is, let me test a hypothesis about what will create a better event or a worse event in the future. Yeah, I think that's great.

[00:14:49] And there's so many signals now, and especially with data and AI and ways to be experimenting in between the actual show days. And with digital, there's a way to have these conversations all the time and really fine-tuning what you're going to offer and make sure it's actually delivering what people want to receive and where they receive that value. But can I tell you the number one thing that entrepreneurs say is, I don't have time. I don't have time to go talk to my customers and prospects. And I'm like, well, you're going to be out of business.

[00:15:19] But that's the same thing that I think event professionals say. Like, I don't have time to go talk to all these past attendees. Like, I have a lot of things on my plate. And I would say it's a little bit of time now, but the value of what you're going to learn will create a much better event. That's how you make leaps and bounds of jumps in value versus incrementally going in one direction or another. Yeah, completely agree.

[00:15:42] So an event person who maybe is trying to talk to their board or their CEO about some of this experimentation, having some learning moments, and maybe they're not as forward-thinking or open to the experiments. How do they have a conversation with their boss and their board about, you know, sort of failing forward? I think you show them what experiments can do and then ask for more time to do it. So just go do some.

[00:16:11] You know, we're talking about conversations with five people. You know, you could set time aside and then say, oh, my God, I talked to these five people, and this is what I learned about the event. And I think it's very different than how we've been thinking about it. Could I have time to go talk to 50 people? Because I think the insights that we would learn would be much more valuable. And then I would tell you that no longer are you becoming the person that executes on the tactical things of an event.

[00:16:37] Now you are a strategic advisor to the organization about what makes for a good event. And I think it's a way to be more respected and move upstream in the value that you provide to the organization. Yeah, we talk on this show all the time about moving from an operational leader to a strategic leader. And there a lot of times is no hierarchy in that jump in your organization. So thinking reinvention, this is a really easy way to start reinventing your role,

[00:17:02] to move into that strategy role as an event advisor to the company and not just the doer and executor of the event. Let me tell you where I think most people make a mistake. Like they think that they get to that strategic role by coming up with ideas. And they're going to come to the board and they're going to say, we should do this or we should do this. Well, now it's a subjective opinion between you and somebody else. But if you came to the board with insights,

[00:17:27] hey, I spoke to these past attendees and this is what I learned that you don't yet know about that might be surprising. Then it's impossible to argue with, you know? Then they almost have to run an experiment to learn if that's true among other people. And so don't put yourself in a position where it's like your opinion versus the board's position. Put yourself in a position where you hold information that they're like, oh my God, can we have more of that? That seems amazing. Yeah.

[00:17:54] And the risk feels less scary because it's not putting your sort of neck on the line of like, here's my idea. It's like, here's my idea based on all the research. So it feels like a safer place to come from. Yeah. Well, that's amazing. And one of the other things you talk a lot about, and I say this all the time when people talk about innovation, they assume that means invention. Like I have to come up with some brand new huge idea. Like I have to invent this, the iPhone for the first time. And that means innovation.

[00:18:23] What does innovation actually mean? It's not a thing. It's how you do everything. So you could be an innovative parent. You could be an innovative spouse. You could be an innovative employee. It's basically saying that no matter how things are going right now, I believe that they could be going better. And we could provide more value to the people that we serve. And that is the mindset of I'm going to be the one to figure out how to up the ante on how much value we provide.

[00:18:51] That's the mindset you could be going into every conversation with. Yeah, that's very true. And where do you think the line is between true innovation and sort of lipstick on a pig or same hat, new box? Like where is that line? I think most organizations fall into a trap of using lingo but doing all the same action.

[00:19:14] So a lot of organizations will implement agile, you know, as a methodology and they'll start having stand-ups and they'll use agile language to like start, stop, continue. But they won't change the practices of what it is that they're actually doing. So I think the difference of whether you're actually being innovative, this is how you know, okay? You look at all the things that you've said no to. These are the things that we've shut down.

[00:19:44] And if your closet of old ideas is pathetic and it's like nobody came, we started a thing and no one came and then we stopped it. That's not a good set of experiments. But if your closet is like we had this one thing and 400 people showed up but we decided to stop it because we created something that was even more valuable, then ah, that's how I know that there is experimentation and innovation in your organization and you're continuing to increase the value.

[00:20:13] I love that. And that requires curiosity, which is like the word I think we both use quite a bit and I love that. But how does that go into practice, right? So how do you operationalize curiosity that then goes hand-in-hand sort of with innovation? So curiosity is the space between what you know today and what you don't know. And most people show up to work, no space. You know, you have a to-do list, you have email, you have things that need to get done, a lot of things.

[00:20:43] And I will just tell you that all of your growth and improvement happens in that space. So I make a purposeful intention to create space on my calendar. If it doesn't exist on your calendar, it won't happen. So where are you reviewing, like doing an after-action review of something that was launched to see how you could do it even better? When are you implementing a process to check for what should we stop in the next year?

[00:21:11] Like where are we spending time, you know, I call them zombies, like uses of our time that don't produce enough value in return. What are those? So what are the moments of reflection on your calendar? Are you giving yourself time between meetings, just 10 minutes, a buffer to just think about what happened at the meeting and whether you want to act on it or not, you know? I have an AI app I'm working on where you sign in with your calendar and it tells you how curious you are.

[00:21:38] Because if you have like back-to-back-to-back-to-back meetings, then there is no time for curiosity in your day. So I would say the calendar will show you what you find valuable and what you're trying to accomplish. It does not lie. Yeah, I agree. I think executives fall in this trap a lot.

[00:21:57] And I know in my time and some of the most innovative ideas and things that I've created were happened and came to me in moments of quiet and solitude where I actually turned my brain off and just kind of let it wander. And, you know, not to get too side-railed onto a soapbox of mine, but like that's why I struggle so much with some of the new generation and kids these days. Like they need to be bored.

[00:22:25] Like you get so curious when you're bored and you have to think of something to do. And instead of just like an iPad in space, like right in front of your face or there's endless things we could watch on TV. But like sometimes being bored and just sitting and letting your mind wander, I think creates some of the most curious moments and lead to some of the biggest innovations. That's why I think everybody should be taking four showers a day. I think that's the secret to creating space for thinking and boredom in our lives. Adults and children both.

[00:22:55] I think it's the only safe place left from electronics. I completely agree. And now there's even like Bluetooth speakers in the showers and stuff. And oh my gosh, I agree. And think how clean we would be if we showered four times a day. It would be the healthiest generation. I mean, it's so terrific. Yeah. We would all be so great. So one of the things we've talked about is talking in the debrief to people who stopped coming to shows, right?

[00:23:18] We survey everyone who comes and then we make assessments and we do event adjustments based on people who are in the room. But as we've talked about, some of the people who stopped coming give you the best insights. What are like maybe five questions or the place to start talking to the people who stopped coming to your programs? So I used to have a company. It was called JD Insights. And the whole purpose of the company was to call customers who left and interview them.

[00:23:45] And before we did that, we would ask the company, like, give us the reasons you think people are leaving. And it would never match. Like, never. It was like amazing, you know? And every time the reasons the people leaving told us, it would create value for the organization. Like, 100% of the time. So I would say, number one, your job is to let them know that you're not mad at them and you're not calling to convince them to come back. Like, this is not a sales call.

[00:24:13] This is we're trying to get better and we would really value your opinion in order to help us grow. Okay? And you have to honor that. Don't try to get them back. You know? Yeah. That's number one. Number two, you want to know why, in their opinion, they decided it wasn't worth to re-sign up. And if they did anything else instead, you know? And then you understand who your competitors are, whether it's nothing or some other event, you know?

[00:24:41] And then if they picked some other event, you don't argue with them. That's key. And instead, you say, well, what is it that they're doing over there that is of value? And then the third thing I would say is, okay, I understand between these two events why you went to that one. What is your favorite event of the year that you go to? What is the most unforgettable experience that you've had at an event and what was that like? Just an opportunity to really get some additional bonus insights.

[00:25:10] And I think if you do those three things, oh, man, you're going to come away with huge value. Yeah, agreed. And do you think it should be someone from the organization? Or do you bring in a third-party company like the company you used to run to have that? Like it feels like more net neutral, like a focus group with the one-way mirror kind of situation? Or should someone from the org call them? I don't think it should be somebody whose job is tied to people attending.

[00:25:37] Like I don't think those people can help themselves to not argue with the person and to really not try to sell them to come back. It really – that is the key part is that this isn't a sales call. It is an informational call where you're trying to learn, a learning call. Yeah, you have to be completely objective about it. And if you're tied to the event and the success of it, you might be too emotionally close to it. No question. Yeah, I love that.

[00:26:06] Okay, well, one of the things in your book – I've got it right here. Clearly all the sticky notes. I took so many notes. So this is The Curiosity Muscle. It's my favorite book that you wrote. And this entire book just covers what we just talked about. And one of the reasons I love this book is it's all told in a story format. And part of that was because this is a company you did work with and you can't use names, so you turn them into characters, which I love.

[00:26:30] But give – and all of your books are kind of written in story form and not like a traditional like here's five lessons. And it resonates and stuck with me more because it was in a story format. And why is that your delivery preference when you're writing in like a full narrative? Like this could be a novel as opposed to like an educational book.

[00:26:52] I would say this applies to event planners because I spend 50% of my time thinking about the content and I spend 50% of my time – here it is, my other hand – thinking about the delivery vehicle for that content. Which is like here's what I'm trying to say. Here's how I make it interesting. And what you didn't share is it's a dirty business book. It is. You're trying to figure out if the main character slept with one of his customers. And it's fun.

[00:27:21] It's fun to try to find out and it keeps you reading. And I actually think we should be taking this approach of designing events where we think just as much about the energy, the highs and the lows of people in the session and how to design fun, memorable experiences to help them retain the knowledge. Yeah, I agree. Definitely story arcs within a session. But then how does that play out on like a full multi-day event?

[00:27:49] Like how do you have that connecting thread story? Every event has a theme. And I guarantee you most people that go to an event don't know what your theme is. Like I don't think we do a very good job of presenting that. So how do you stretch that story over maybe a three-day conference that has an expo hall with food and beverage and all these hallway conversations? There's so much that goes on. So like how do we tell that story over three days? Yeah.

[00:28:14] And a lot of people talk about how they want attendees to feel at the end of the conference, but nobody feels anything for three days. You feel things like this in a second, you know? So identify here are the 10 moments in my conference that I want them to have like the oh my God feeling. And actually I think I shared this with you. I helped some event planners put together a list.

[00:28:37] I think it's over 100, maybe 150 different ideas of ways to make event organizers like help their attendees feel this way at different moments. So like before the conference, when they first arrive at the conference, during the sessions. And I'll send it to you however you want to share that with your listeners. Yeah, we'll share it out with everybody. That's amazing. Because so many of the event, especially now, starts before you even leave your house.

[00:29:03] Like how excited are you to actually leave and get on an airplane and go through the airport and deal with TSA and airline passengers and delays? Like there's so much that goes into even just leaving your house. So how you show up for them before they even touch your hotel or convention center or wherever your venue is, I think is some of the most critical points in event planning now. Not just once they get in the door and register. I think people think, oh, I don't have time to think about that.

[00:29:31] And I would say, I don't care where your 10 moments come, but these are opportunities. These are white space that nobody else is touching. And you could literally have an onboarding experience that's so amazing that it doesn't even matter what happens at the conference. So just think about them not as another to-do, but as an opportunity to create these memorable moments to significantly increase how often people come back. Yeah, agreed. So we'll definitely get that list shared out with everyone.

[00:29:59] Okay, so this is your new book that you are so kind, holding it up, Get Curious and Grow. I mean, the title alone has me interested and your cute little character on the bottom just makes me giggle every single time I see it. So give us a little plug about this book, when it's coming out, and then I want to give you some of my thoughts on why I loved it so much. Okay, well, you got to share the back. Show the back of the book. It's made to stand somewhere where you can see it. See, it says today is day one.

[00:30:25] And that's the whole goal of the book is like no matter how successful you've been in the past, no matter how good you are at your job, it is often that same success that slows down our future growth. Success is what kills curiosity. And so how do you create space for curiosity to exist in your world after success? Because that's how we keep growing and we keep reinventing ourselves and we keep adding new value.

[00:30:47] So the whole book is 10 innovation habits that the fastest growing individuals and organizations all embody. And you can pick and choose. Like some of them are so easy to implement right away. Instead of asking yes or no questions, you should rate things on a scale of 1 to 10. There, I just taught you. I just taught you one. And it will probably pound for pound make the biggest impact on your year.

[00:31:12] Instead of like should we invest in this vendor or not, just rate it on a scale of 1 to 10. And then I have nine more different ways to solve problems in innovative ways and to iterate your way from something that's already successful. Yeah, I love it. And not just your scale of 1 to 10. I've started using on a scale of Snoop Dogg to Vanilla Ice. And if you read the book, you will understand what this means.

[00:31:35] I use that so much in my brain now of thinking about growing my business and growing this podcast and where do we want it to go and how far do we push the boundaries? Does that boundary make sense? And so I use that scale pretty often. The other thing I love about your book is as a kid growing up, we read The Goosebumps a lot. And you got to pick your own adventure as you read through it. And you structured this very much in that same way of like start here if you're feeling this.

[00:32:02] Start at this chapter if you're feeling that or need help with that, start here. So you very much can kind of – I mean it's an easy read anyway. So I've read it three or four times at this point. But if you're not a reader, there's still a way to get something out of this without having to sit down and read it cover to cover. Like I'm a nerd and love to read. So I, of course, read it to cover. My goal is to write bathroom readers. I'll be honest. I want bathroom readers that grow your business, you know? And that's what I think this is.

[00:32:29] Well, and the other thing you told me, and I might be spilling secret sauce so tell me we can cut this out. But you said you try to get your books shorter every time you write a new one. Yeah, 30% shorter from each book. And why do you approach it that way? Because that's the attention span of our current audiences, you know? People are just reading less and less books. And I want somebody to hold the book and be like, I could read this, you know? That's the goal. And that's what I want us to think about for our attendees.

[00:32:58] I think we take attention for granted. And we have to create events. We're creating events now that are very similar to events 10 years ago. But the attention span of our audiences has significantly changed in that period. So how do we react to, you know, you can see that book is filled with pictures and posters. And it's made for today's attention span. And I'm just like so in touch with the people who I want to consume the book and how I want it to be accessible and doable for them.

[00:33:27] That, again, I'm thinking about the message and then how it's delivered in how people consume information today. Yep. I absolutely love it. And we've had Neen James on last year on the podcast. And she has a whole book about attention pace. And when you can capture attention, how it helps grow and how you have to meet people where they are. And we're less than goldfish at this point. So attention is currency at this point. Yeah. So tell us, when does Get Curious and Grow come out?

[00:33:57] When are you launching? It's out now. You can find it, yes, on a link in my Instagram or my LinkedIn profile. So very easy to get. And I think it'll be up on Amazon in a couple of weeks. Amazing. Well, we'll link to everything in the show notes so you guys can grab your copy there. All right. So this is something new. I actually started Inspired by You. So you were very kind to send us your Curious Connection cards, which if you're an event person or a facilitator or moderator, like this is a godsend.

[00:34:26] You need to get them. We'll link to them in the show notes also. So I grabbed three cards. So you get to pick one to answer as our final question. So card one, card two, card three. Three. Give me three. What's a cause or charity you're passionate about supporting? My husband and I love this organization called Veterans Community Project. They build tiny houses for homeless veterans and they provide wraparound services.

[00:34:53] So like they get them haircuts, dog care, bus passes, anything they need. And the joke, I don't know if you remember the hair club for men joke. He was like not only a president, he was also a client. So I would say the same is true for us. My husband went through their system to get help from the VA. He's a veteran. And they've changed our lives and they've changed countless lives.

[00:35:19] And if you follow my social, you'll see me doing fundraising activities for that charity. Oh, I absolutely love that. Well, we're going to leave it there. That's all the time we have for today. And Diana, tell everyone where they can follow you and find you on the interwebs. My name is Diana Kander. Just type it into Google and you'll find lots of links. But the fun content is on Instagram and the professional content is on LinkedIn. That's amazing.

[00:35:45] Well, thanks for tuning in to another event about it after show because the best conversations start after the show ends. Until next time, stay curious.